‘This Is Different’: Dan Abrams Says for Trump ‘All Signals Are Towards Indictment’
Donald Trump, the twice-impeached former U.S. president, will “likely” be indicted, says ABC News legal analyst Dan Abrams, insisting that this time accountability will be hard for him to escape.
“All signs point to a likely indictment,” Abrams, the founder of Law & Crime and Mediaite, told the co-hosts on “The View” Tuesday.
“Why do I say that? First you’ve got the fight over former President Trump’s tax returns. Then you’ve got the hiring of a very high-profile prosecutor, who is brought in to basically oversee this case. He leaves a very cushy job in private practice, to come in and work in the DA ‘s office just on this case, this is his expertise, and now you’ve got this special grand jury, that’s been empaneled typically you don’t get a special grand jury, like this, unless they believe they have evidence of a crime. So, all the evidence all the signals are towards a likely indictment of someone, if not more than one person.”
Co-host Joy Behar expressed concern that Trump has “gotten away with” numerous misdeeds and always escaped strong accountability.
“Indulge me in my skepticism,” Behar asked, “but Trump has gotten away with impeachment, he’s gotten away with inciting a riot at the Capitol. He got away in the Mueller investigation, you know, what makes you think they’re gonna get him this time? There’s something about this guy that he slips through because he has, he has enablers everywhere.”
Abrams, who has been called a “go-to analyst on legal affairs,” explained why that’s less likely this time.
“This is different,” he said. “In each one of those cases, there was a lane, right? When you talk about impeachment, you talk about specific rules that relate to impeachment of a president and what is the standard, when should someone be impeached? With Mueller, he was in a very specific lane on the Russia investigation, etc. Told you can’t veer beyond that, this Manhattan DA in particular can investigate whatever potential crime comes across his desk and here, we’re not talking about Donald Trump as president, with the protections that the President has, we’re talking about what Donald Trump as private citizen did with regard to real estate deals and possible bank fraud, etc. So in this sense he’s being treated just like everybody else, which makes this a very different kind of investigation than every other one you mentioned.”
Abrams also noted that now the investigation is about “his conduct before he was President.”
“I will just tell you that, that all the signals, and you’re right, you never know because look, they may say, ‘we’re going to create a higher standard, because he’s the former president,’ and, ‘we’re gonna have to be even more convinced because he’s the former president,’ that’s possible that the DA does that, but if you just view it as private citizen if this were any other case, anyone else, would be telling you all signals are towards indictment.”
.@danabrams tells @TheView “all signs point to a likely indictment” in Trump investigation: “You don’t get a special grand jury like this unless they believe they have evidence of a crime. So all the evidence, all the signals are towards a likely indictment of someone.” pic.twitter.com/nvXPzUPnxg
— The View (@TheView) June 1, 2021
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Double Bombshell: Mark Meadows and Trump’s Secret Service Agents Have Testified, NYT Reports
The New York Times late Tuesday afternoon published two separate reports revealing previously unknown details from Special Counsel Jack Smith’s double-pronged investigation into Donald Trump’s likely unlawful actions, including that investigators have interviewed or subpoenaed approximately two dozen people who are among those who know the ex-president best: Mark Meadows, Trump’s final White House Chief of Staff, and “more than 20” of the ex-president’s Secret Service agents.
The Times, pointing to the “surprise revelation” that a federal grand jury has been convened in Florida, reports Meadows has testified before the grand jury, presumably in Washington, D.C. The 20 or more members of the ex-president’s Secret Service detail have either testified before the D.C. grand jury or been subpoenaed to do so.
Meadows is a “key witness” who allegedly was intimately aware or involved in Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election, and he is believed to also have knowledge of the ex-president’s likely unlawful handling of classified and top secret documents.
Suggesting there could be “unknown complexities” with the revelation of a Florida grand jury, The Times reports Special Counsel Jack Smith’s D.C. grand jury appears to have stopped hearing testimony recently from witnesses, while the one in the Sunshine State “began hearing evidence last month,” but has seen “only a handful of witnesses.”
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Based on “people familiar with the matter,” The Times explains, “if both grand juries are in operation, it suggests that prosecutors are considering bringing charges in both Washington and Florida. It is possible that Mr. Trump could be charged in one jurisdiction while other people involved in the case are charged in the other.”
“But if only the Florida grand jury is currently hearing testimony, it suggests two possibilities,” The Times explains. “One is that the investigation in Washington is largely complete and that prosecutors are now poised to make a decision about bringing charges there while still weighing other potential indictments in Florida.”
Other possibilities are that the Special Counsel believes Florida is the proper venue to file charges against Trump, in the documents probe, or even that the Florida grand jury was convened to accommodate “local witnesses.”
But former Deputy Asst. Attorney General Harry Litman told MSNBC’s Nicole Wallace Tuesday that if the Special Counsel files charges in the wrong venue, the entire case “can go away” and cannot be retried.
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“I think Smith has made all his decisions,” Litman added. “The fact that there was this meeting yesterday, only happens when everything’s final. I think there’s a draft indictment and everything, but a very important strategic decision is venue, and I think that they’re pursuing something separate in the Southern District of Florida.”
Meanwhile, The Times notes that “Mr. Meadows has kept largely out of sight, and some of Mr. Trump’s advisers believe he could be a significant witness in the inquiries.” Apparently, even Trump has “at times asked aides questions about how Mr. Meadows is doing, according to a person familiar with the remarks.”
Meadows’ attorney, George Terwilliger, played coy when asked about his client’s possible grand jury testimony. Terwilliger told The Times, “Without commenting on whether or not Mr. Meadows has testified before the grand jury or in any other proceeding, Mr. Meadows has maintained a commitment to tell the truth where he has a legal obligation to do so.”
In addition to his knowledge, if not participation in efforts to overturn the election, and his knowledge of Trump’s mishandling and possible attempts to obstruct the Dept. of Justice’s investigation into the classified documents, Meadows “tangentially” is involved in a meeting that Special Counsel Smith now has recorded audio of. Although he was not present, that meeting was about Meadows’ book. In the audio, Trump allegedly made clear he knew the highly-classified Pentagon document had not been declassified, shattering his stated defense, and he allegedly said he wanted to share it, which could lead to more legal troubles for him.
Andrew Weissmann, a former top DOJ official, tweeted in response to the Times’ story on Meadows, “Did he plead or was he given immunity?”
Professor of law at NYU Law, Ryan Goodman, a former Special Counsel for the Dept. of Defense, served up this equation:
“Put these 2 things together and what do you have? 1) Meadows ‘has testified before a federal grand jury…in the investigations being led by the special counsel’s office’! 2) Meadow’s actions seem to be kept secret from Trump team! Answer: A cooperator?”
Classified Pentagon ‘War Plans’ Document Trump Bragged About in Audio Recording Is Missing: Report
Donald Trump’s legal team has been unable to locate the classified Pentagon document detailing a possible attack on Iran the ex-president was recorded at his Bedminster golf resort in 2021 bragging he had held onto.
“Attorneys for Donald Trump turned over material in mid-March in response to a federal subpoena related to a classified US military document described by the former president on tape in 2021 but were unable to find the document itself, two sources tell CNN,” the network reported Friday. “Prosecutors issued the subpoena shortly after asking a Trump aide before a federal grand jury about the audio recording of a July 2021 meeting at Trump’s golf course in Bedminster, New Jersey.”
In that audio recording Trump allegedly says he wished he could show the document, but acknowledges it is classified and therefore he is not allowed to share it. Attendees in that 2021 meeting reportedly did not have clearance to even know about the existence of the document.
“Prosecutors sought ‘any and all’ documents and materials related to Mark Milley, Trump’s chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Iran, including maps or invasion plans, the sources say. A similar subpoena was sent to at least one other attendee of the meeting, another source tells CNN.”
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The Pentagon appears greatly concerned about the document, which legal experts have referred to as “war plans.”
CNN adds that its “sources say prosecutors made clear to Trump’s attorneys after issuing the subpoena that they specifically wanted the Iran document he talked about on tape as well as any material referencing classified information – like meeting notes, audio recordings or copies of the document – that may still be Trump’s possession.”
CNN also reports both DOJ and the Special Counsel’s office have expressed concerns Trump still has not returned all classified documents he unlawfully removed from the White House.
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Former DOJ Official Says Audio of Trump Admitting to Keeping ‘War Plans’ Makes it ‘Inconceivable’ He Will Not Be Charged
A former top U.S. Dept. of Justice official says it is “inconceivable” that Donald Trump will not be charged, based on reports Special Counsel Jack Smith has an audio recording of the ex-president admitting he was in possession of a classified Pentagon document detailing a possible attack on Iran.
“I think if this audio tape exists, this is not a question of if there are going to be charges. It’s just a question of when,” announced NBC News/MSNBC legal analyst Andrew Weissmann, the well-known former FBI General Counsel who worked at DOJ for two decades.
Importantly, Weissmann, who made his remarks on MSNBC Thursday, notes that the document in question, if it is as described, contains “war plans.”
“And the proof that we have learned just publicly is so strong. And Jack Smith is such a competent and aggressive prosecutor. It is inconceivable to me that this would not be charged, and having a tape recording of the prospective defendant admitting his possession of a classified document that he had no right to have,” Weissmann says.
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“And not just any classified document. I think it’s really important to remember that what he talks about reportedly, is a classified document involving something that is unbelievably sensitive, which is war plans of the United States against another country.”
Where news broke Wednesday NYU Law professor of law Ryan Goodman, a former U.S. Dept. of Defense Special Counsel, wrote: “War plans are among the most highly classified documents. Puts pressure on DOJ to indict, and a jury to convict.”
Some say, based on the audio, Trump might have been holding the document as he was being recorded at his Bedminster, New Jersey golf resort, allegedly discussing it.
“Make no mistake. This is squarely an Espionage Act case,” Goodman also said, calling the news a “bombshell.”
Explaining the gravity of the document, Weissmann notes, “this is not just taking love letters of Kim Jong Un or salacious material about the president in France. This is exactly what the Department of Justice and the intelligence community is worried about.”
Continuing to explain just how serious this is, Weissmann served up the ground rules.
“Let’s remember government documents, whether classified or not, belong to the government. They are not to be retained by a private citizen. And the former president is a private citizen. So for instance, when I was in the Department of Justice, the number of documents I could take when I left the Department of Justice would be zero. So you’re not supposed to have that possession of government documents. If they are classified, there can be an additional type of charge, but it’s not required that that material be classified or classified at a particular level.”
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“What you’re looking at here is whether the person either knowingly took the documents or knowingly retained the documents. Important this tape recording, if it exists, as recorded, is that you’ve got Donald Trump admitting that he has in his possession a classified document – doesn’t matter if it’s Secret, Top Secret, it’s classified, that itself is a crime.”
And then finally, with respect to dissemination, the recording is that there does appear to be at least some dissemination of the information because Donald Trump, although he doesn’t turn the document over or quote from it, he does talk about what is in there. In other words, the reason we’re all talking about the fact that involves war plans involving Iran is because reportedly that is what Donald Trump said was in the document. If that proves out, that is a form of dissemination.”
On social media later Thursday, Weissman tweeted, “Days, not months…” suggesting he believes an indictment of Trump would be coming sooner rather than later.
Watch Weissmann below or at this link.
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