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Indiana Gov. Mike Pence Questions Whether LGBT Civil Rights Are ‘Necessary or Even Possible’

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GOP Incumbent Says ‘Religious Freedom’ Takes Precedence Over Nondiscrimination

For a brief moment during Indiana Gov. Mike Pence‘s State of the State Address on Tuesday, it sounded as though he might have learned his lesson from the state and national outcry over his decision to sign an anti-LGBT “religious freedom” law last year.

It sounded as though, after 10 months of studying the issue, Pence would finally heed the calls of Democrats, some business-minded Republicans, LGBT advocates and hundreds of the state’s employers, by endorsing a statewide law prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity. 

“Our state Constitution declares that all people are created equal, and I believe that no one should be harassed or mistreated because of who they are, who they love, or what they believe,” Pence said near the end of his widely anticipated speech. “We cherish the dignity and worth of all our citizens. Here in Indiana, we are an open and welcoming state that welcomes anyone, and anyone that doesn’t know that doesn’t know Indiana.”

Then, things took a dramatic turn for the worse.

“Hoosiers also cherish faith, and the freedom to live out their faith in their daily lives,” Pence added. “Whether you work in a church or a synagogue or a temple or a mosque, religion brings meaning to the daily lives of millions of Hoosiers and no one should ever fear persecution because of their deeply held religious beliefs.” 

RELATED: As New Poll Shows 70% Support LGBT Protections, Mike Pence Says ‘Hoosiers Will Know Where I Stand’

Pence told lawmakers the question they face is “whether it is necessary or even possible” to pass LGBT protections while also preserving religious freedom.  

“Our Supreme Court has actually made it clear that our state Constitution protects both belief and practice,” Pence told said. “So, as you go about your work on other issues, know that I will always give careful consideration to any bill that you send me, but legislation must be consistent with the Indiana Constitution. I will not support any bill that diminishes the religious freedom of Hoosiers or interferes with the Constitutional rights of our citizens to live out their beliefs in worship, service or work.”

With that, Pence appeared to dash any hopes that the Legislature will pass a nondiscrimination law in 2016 that has the blessing of LGBT groups. According to professor Sheila Suess Kennedy, former director of the Indiana Civil Liberties Union, the governor also committed political suicide. 

“He has chosen his side — the religious extremists, the people who really do not believe that gay and lesbian Hoosiers should be entitled to equal rights,” Kennedy told The Indianapolis Star. “And he is certainly entitled to do that, but I think politically it was suicide.”

In November, Pence will face Democrat John Gregg, who supports adding sexual orientation and gender identity to Indiana’s existing civil rights law. 

“Once again Mike Pence has proven he’s just an officeholder, not a leader,” Gregg said in a statement responding to Pence’s speech. “On issue after issue critical to the state of Indiana, he passes the buck, rather than doing the job he was elected to do. His refusal to take a stand for equality is unconscionable given the fact that he created this mess, which continues to damage Indiana’s economy and reputation.” 

Drew Anderson, a spokesman for the state Democratic Party, called Pence “delusional,” saying the governor’s decision to sign the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) of 2015 “threw Indiana into a $250 million economic panic.” In response to intense backlash over RFRA, lawmakers quickly passed an emergency “fix,” but LGBT groups say it doesn’t go far enough. Indiana remains one of about 30 states where anti-LGBT discrimination is legal, although cities like Indianapolis have passed local bans. 

“Mike Pence doesn’t ‘abhor discrimination’ — he actively promotes it, and that is why Indiana’s ‘Hoosier Hospitality’ reputation is in jeopardy,” Anderson said in response to Pence’s speech. 

This year, Indiana GOP lawmakers have introduced several bills purporting to ban anti-LGBT discrimination that contain broad religious exemptions. Lambda Legal, the LGBT civil rights group, said those bills “fail miserably to address the very real issues facing LGBT Hoosiers today.”

“Let’s remember the national fury unleashed on Indiana last spring, when the legislature passed, and Governor Pence signed, a religious refusal law that allowed businesses and service providers to discriminate against LGBT people,” Lambda Legal’s Christopher Clark said. “It is clear from tonight’s address that Governor Pence forgot all about it and he has once again, started to back himself into that same corner.”

The Human Rights Campaign accused Pence of “punting” on the issue of LGBT rights, and Freedom Indiana called his speech “a complete letdown.” 

Not surprisingly, though, socially conservative lawmakers and groups rallied to the governor’s defense. 

Ron Johnson Jr., executive director of the Indiana Pastors Alliance, told The Indy Star that Pence made a “pretty strong statement” and that LGBT protections would mean “people’s religious beliefs, and in particular here Christianity and Christian beliefs, become criminalized, because if you believe what the Bible says about sexuality, you are now a bigot.” 

RELATED: Indiana GOP Gov. Mike Pence Sends Pride Letter, Just Can’t Bring Himself To Mention LGBT People

“That’s what the law tells you — that it is a terrible thing for people of faith who simply respectfully disagree with the LGBT community,” Johnson said. 

Ironically, Pence concluded his speech by reciting lyrics from “Back Home Again in Indiana,” a song made famous by openly gay musician Jim Naibors, who sang it before the Indianapolis 500 for 30 years. 

“For the moonlight is still fair tonight along the Wabash, and from the fields still comes the breath of new mown hay,” Pence said. “The candle lights are still gleaming, thro’ the sycamores, on the banks of the Wabash, far away.” 

Below are a few more reactions to Pence’s speech from Twitter:

 

EARLIER:

Indiana GOP Introduces Nondiscrimination Bill LGBT Group Calls ‘Road Map For Discrimination’

Guess How Much $$ Indiana Spent Fighting Against Marriage Equality In Court

Indiana Spends Millions On PR Firm To Fix Image Fallout From ‘Religious Freedom’ Fight

 

 

Image: Screenshot via RTV6 | The Indy Channel/YouTube 

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‘Assassination of Political Rivals as an Official Act’: AOC Warns Take Trump ‘Seriously’

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April 25, 2024

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Democratic U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is responding to Thursday’s U.S. Supreme Court hearing on Donald Trump’s claim he has “absolute immunity” from criminal prosecution because he was a U.S. president, and she delivered a strong warning in response.

Trump’s attorney argued before the nation’s highest court that the ex-president could have ordered the assassination of a political rival and not face criminal prosecution unless he was first impeached by the House of Representatives and then convicted by the Senate.

But even then, Trump attorney John Sauer argued, if assassinating his political rival were done as an “official act,” he would be automatically immune from all prosecution.

Justice Sonia Sotomayor, presenting the hypothetical, expressed, “there are some things that are so fundamentally evil that they have to be protected against.”

RELATED: Justices’ Views on Trump Immunity Stun Experts: ‘Watching the Constitution Be Rewritten’

“If the president decides that his rival is a corrupt person, and he orders the military, or orders someone to assassinate him, is that within his official acts for which he can get immunity?” she asked.

“It would depend on the hypothetical, but we can see that could well be an official act,” Trump attorney Sauer quickly replied.

Sauer later claimed that if a president ordered the U.S. military to wage a coup, he could also be immune from prosecution, again, if it were an “official act.”

The Atlantic’s Tom Nichols, a retired U.S. Naval War College professor and an expert on Russia, nuclear weapons, and national security affairs, was quick to poke a large hole in that hypothetical.

“If the president suspends the Senate, you can’t prosecute him because it’s not an official act until the Senate impeaches …. Uh oh,” he declared.

RELATED: Justices Slam Trump Lawyer: ‘Why Is It the President Would Not Be Required to Follow the Law?’

U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez blasted the Trump team.

“The assassination of political rivals as an official act,” the New York Democrat wrote.

“Understand what the Trump team is arguing for here. Take it seriously and at face value,” she said, issuing a warning: “This is not a game.”

Marc Elias, who has been an attorney to top Democrats and the Democratic National Committee, remarked, “I am in shock that a lawyer stood in the U.S Supreme Court and said that a president could assassinate his political opponent and it would be immune as ‘an official act.’ I am in despair that several Justices seemed to think this answer made perfect sense.”

CNN legal analyst Norm Eisen, a former U.S. Ambassador and White House Special Counsel for Ethics and Government Reform under President Barack Obama, boiled it down: “Trump is seeking dictatorial powers.”

Watch the video above or at this link.

READ MORE: ‘They Will Have Thugs?’: Lara Trump’s Claim RNC Will ‘Physically Handle the Ballots’ Stuns

 

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Justices’ Views on Trump Immunity Stun Experts: ‘Watching the Constitution Be Rewritten’

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April 25, 2024

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Legal experts appeared somewhat pleased during the first half of the Supreme Court’s historic hearing on Donald Trump’s claim he has “absolute immunity” from criminal prosecution because he was the President of the United States, as the justice appeared unwilling to accept that claim, but were stunned later when the right-wing justices questioned the U.S. Dept. of Justice’s attorney. Many experts are suggesting the ex-president may have won at least a part of the day, and some are expressing concern about the future of American democracy.

“Former President Trump seems likely to win at least a partial victory from the Supreme Court in his effort to avoid prosecution for his role in Jan. 6,” Axios reports. “A definitive ruling against Trump — a clear rejection of his theory of immunity that would allow his Jan. 6 trial to promptly resume — seemed to be the least likely outcome.”

The most likely outcome “might be for the high court to punt, perhaps kicking the case back to lower courts for more nuanced hearings. That would still be a victory for Trump, who has sought first and foremost to delay a trial in the Jan. 6 case until after Inauguration Day in 2025.”

Slate’s Mark Joseph Stern, who covers the courts and the law, noted: “This did NOT go very well [for Special Counsel] Jack Smith’s team. Thomas, Alito, and Kavanaugh think Trump’s Jan. 6 prosecution is unconstitutional. Maybe Gorsuch too. Roberts is skeptical of the charges. Barrett is more amenable to Smith but still wants some immunity.”

READ MORE: ‘To Do God Knows What’: Local Elections Official Reads Lara Trump the Riot Act

Civil rights attorney and Tufts University professor Matthew Segal, responding to Stern’s remarks, commented: “If this is true, and if Trump becomes president again, there is likely no limit to the harm he’d be willing to cause — to the country, and to specific individuals — under the aegis of this immunity.”

Noted foreign policy, national security and political affairs analyst and commentator David Rothkopf observed: “Feels like the court is leaning toward creating new immunity protections for a president. It’s amazing. We’re watching the Constitution be rewritten in front of our eyes in real time.”

“Frog in boiling water alert,” warned Ian Bassin, a former Associate White House Counsel under President Barack Obama. “Who could have imagined 8 years ago that in the Trump era the Supreme Court would be considering whether a president should be above the law for assassinating opponents or ordering a military coup and that *at least* four justices might agree.”

NYU professor of law Melissa Murray responded to Bassin: “We are normalizing authoritarianism.”

Trump’s attorney, John Sauer, argued before the Supreme Court justices that if Trump had a political rival assassinated, he could only be prosecuted if he had first been impeach by the U.S. House of Representatives then convicted by the U.S. Senate.

During oral arguments Thursday, MSNBC host Chris Hayes commented on social media, “Something that drives me a little insane, I’ll admit, is that Trump’s OWN LAWYERS at his impeachment told the Senators to vote not to convict him BECAUSE he could be prosecuted if it came to that. Now they’re arguing that the only way he could be prosecuted is if they convicted.”

READ MORE: Biden Campaign Hammers Trump Over Infamous COVID Comment

Attorney and former FBI agent Asha Rangappa warned, “It’s worth highlighting that Trump’s lawyers are setting up another argument for a second Trump presidency: Criminal laws don’t apply to the President unless they specifically say so…this lays the groundwork for saying (in the future) he can’t be impeached for conduct he can’t be prosecuted for.”

But NYU and Harvard professor of law Ryan Goodman shared a different perspective.

“Due to Trump attorney’s concessions in Supreme Court oral argument, there’s now a very clear path for DOJ’s case to go forward. It’d be a travesty for Justices to delay matters further. Justice Amy Coney Barrett got Trump attorney to concede core allegations are private acts.”

NYU professor of history Ruth Ben-Ghiat, an expert scholar on authoritarians, fascism, and democracy concluded, “Folks, whatever the Court does, having this case heard and the idea of having immunity for a military coup taken seriously by being debated is a big victory in the information war that MAGA and allies wage alongside legal battles. Authoritarians specialize in normalizing extreme ideas and and involves giving them a respected platform.”

The Nation’s justice correspondent Elie Mystal offered up a prediction: “Court doesn’t come back till May 9th which will be a decision day. But I think they won’t decide *this* case until July 3rd for max delay. And that decision will be 5-4 to remand the case back to DC, for additional delay.”

Watch the video above or at this link.

READ MORE: ‘Doesn’t Care if Pregnant Women Live or Die’: Alito Slammed Over Emergency Abortion Remarks

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Justices Slam Trump Lawyer: ‘Why Is It the President Would Not Be Required to Follow the Law?’

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16 hours ago

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April 25, 2024

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Justices on the U.S. Supreme Court hearing Donald Trump’s claim of absolute immunity early on appeared at best skeptical, were able to get his attorney to admit personal criminal acts can be prosecuted, appeared to skewer his argument a president must be impeached and convicted before he can be criminally prosecuted, and peppered him with questions exposing what some experts see is the apparent weakness of his case.

Legal experts appeared to believe, based on the Justices’ questions and statements, Trump will lose his claim of absolute presidential immunity, and may remand the case back to the lower court that already ruled against him, but these observations came during Justices’ questioning of Trump attorney John Sauer, and before they questioned the U.S. Dept. of Justice’s Michael Dreeben.

“I can say with reasonable confidence that if you’re arguing a case in the Supreme Court of the United States and Justices Alito and Sotomayor are tag-teaming you, you are going to lose,” noted attorney George Conway, who has argued a case before the nation’s highest court and obtained a unanimous decision.

But some are also warning that the justices will delay so Special Counsel Jack Smith’s prosecution of Trump will not take place before the November election.

READ MORE: ‘To Do God Knows What’: Local Elections Official Reads Lara Trump the Riot Act

“This argument still has a ways to go,” observed UCLA professor of law Rick Hasen, one of the top election law scholars in the county. “But it is easy to see the Court (1) siding against Trump on the merits but (2) in a way that requires further proceedings that easily push this case past the election (to a point where Trump could end this prosecution if elected).”

The Economist’s Supreme Court reporter Steven Mazie appeared to agree: “So, big picture: the (already slim) chances of Jack Smith actually getting his 2020 election-subversion case in front of a jury before the 2024 election are dwindling before our eyes.”

One of the most stunning lines of questioning came from Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, who said, “If someone with those kinds of powers, the most powerful person in the world with the greatest amount of authority, could go into Office knowing that there would be no potential penalty for committing crimes. I’m trying to understand what the disincentive is, from turning the Oval Office into, you know, the seat of criminal activity in this country.”

READ MORE: ‘Doesn’t Care if Pregnant Women Live or Die’: Alito Slammed Over Emergency Abortion Remarks

She also warned, “If the potential for criminal liability is taken off the table, wouldn’t there be a significant risk that future presidents would be emboldened to commit crimes with abandon while they’re in office? It’s right now the fact that we’re having this debate because, OLC [Office of Legal Counsel] has said that presidents might be prosecuted. Presidents, from the beginning of time have understood that that’s a possibility. That might be what has kept this office from turning into the kind of crime center that I’m envisioning, but once we say, ‘no criminal liability, Mr. President, you can do whatever you want,’ I’m worried that we would have a worse problem than the problem of the president feeling constrained to follow the law while he’s in office.”

“Why is it as a matter of theory,” Justice Jackson said, “and I’m hoping you can sort of zoom way out here, that the president would not be required to follow the law when he is performing his official acts?”

“So,” she added later, “I guess I don’t understand why Congress in every criminal statute would have to say and the President is included. I thought that was the sort of background understanding that if they’re enacting a generally applicable criminal statute, it applies to the President just like everyone else.”

Another critical moment came when Justice Elena Kagan asked, “If a president sells nuclear secrets to a foreign adversary, is that immune?”

Professor of law Jennifer Taub observed, “This is truly a remarkable moment. A former U.S. president is at his criminal trial in New York, while at the same time the U.S. Supreme Court is hearing his lawyer’s argument that he should be immune from prosecution in an entirely different federal criminal case.”

Watch the videos above or at this link.

READ MORE: ‘Blood on Your Hands’: Tennessee Republicans OK Arming Teachers After Deadly School Shooting

 

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