On tonight’s Hardball, Chris Matthews moderated a debate between the Chair of the Family Research Council, Tony Perkins, and the Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which just added the FRC to its expanding list of certified hate groups. The Southern Poverty Law Center reminds viewers that the Family Research Council falsely equates homosexuality with pedophilia.

Perkins starts out by stating, “We have not been nor will we be working to re-criminalize homosexual behavior,” then takes right to sodomy and says that homosexual behavior is bad for society and for individuals. Kind of like the old joke, “Have you stopped beating your wife yet?”

Perkins quotes lies from discredited “research” groups, like the American College of Pediatricians, which is a discredited group that was started by George Alan “Rentboy” Rekers.

Remember, the FRC has said gay teens know they are “abnormal,” which makes them suicidal. Which, of course, is false.

I guess anyone can start a group and spew lies. And make money doing it.

One last note: Matthews says at the end to Perkins, “Tony you’re always welcome here.” Well, MSNBC, when will you stop inviting hate groups on your show?

Here’s the transcript via MSNBC:

>>> the southern poverty law center has identified the family research council as one of its hate groups. the frc does not appreciate it. both are with me now. make your case.

>> well, let me say for starters that when we name groups hate groups, that has nothing to do with any allegation of criminality or some kind of measure of expected violence. it’s purely about ideology. do groups demonize entire groups of people with falsehoods and other propaganda. the family research council among many other things has associated falsely gay men with pedophi pedophilea. that’s simply a falsehood and a known falsehood. on your show, chris, a representative of the council, peter sprig said something —

>> let me show you that now. as you’re right to say that. a senior fellow for the policy, the family research council was on “hardball” on february 2nd this year. he’s senior fellow to the sprigg. senior follow over the frc. let’s listen to what he said.

>> do you think that we should outlaw gay behavior?

>> well, i think, certainly —

>> i’m just asking you.

>> — it’s possible.

>> should we outlaw gay behavior.

>> i think that the supreme court. overturned the sodomy laws in this country was wrongly decided.

>> so we should outlaw gay behavior?

>> yes.

>> okay. thank you very much, peter sprigg, we know your position. it’s a clear one.

>> is that your position, mr. parkons? that we should outlaw gay behavior, is that your group’s person, outlaw.

>> nor we’ll be working to recriminalize homosexual behavior. has point in that interview was that in 2003, we were opposed to the overturning of lawrence — of the sodomy laws in the lawren lawrence versus texas case. harmful to society and more importantly to the individuals who engage in it to be silent that is in fact hateful.

>> but he said, we should outlaw it, is that your position, just to get trastraight, should we outlaw it? so he doesn’t speak for your group?

>> look, chris, i just said we have not been — we are not and we are not going to be working to recriminalize homosexual behavior. that’s not the issue today. what’s at issue here is in an attempt to take our public policies and enshrine homosexual behavior as some protective class. redefining marriage, and of course voters in 31 states have rejected that idea. so that’s what we’re working on. we have never put forth a policy that would recriminalize homosexual behavior.

>> let me go back to you, mark.

>> well, let me speak —

>> i want mark to respond to this issue because now we’re having president of the family research council saying that the position that was taken here by peter sprigg, which said we should outlaw gay behavior is not his position, not the position of his organization. does that exempt him from your classification as a hate group, that action today, just now?

>> no, no, i think it’s — i think it’s ridiculous. and i say that for this reason. peter sprigg went on your air just as i am doing as a representative of his organization. the family research council made no sound about this. there was nothing remotely approaching the repudiation or even a clarifying statement about the statements that were made. i mean look the family research council has done things a few years ago they put out a pamphlet called homosexual behavior and pedeio feelia in which they said a part of the homosexual agenda was to destroy, to get rid of all age of consent laws, having to do with sexual behavior, and then the family research council went on to say that, in fact, homosexual activists, in their words, were working to make pedophiles the kind of apostles, the profits of a new sexual order. those are simply falsehoods. those are simple lies.

>> okay is that true —

>> let me go back to —

>> stand for that or not.

>> let me go back to the first issue that mark brings up about the connection between homosexual men and pedagogy fellia. homosexual men who are in — men who engaged in molestation of children. 86% of them are identified as homosexual or bisexual. that study has not been refeuded. based — that statement was based upon. the american college of pediatricians they say the research is overwhelm nag homosexuality poses a risk to children so mark is wrong. he needs to go back and do his own research because this — this evidence is out there. and what we’re saying is this is not beyond debate and what is troubling here, chris, is the left is losing ground in this public policy debate and so they start this juvenile process of name-calling and trying to shutdown debate over public policy.

>> okay stop for a second. you say that the public is turning against this, whatever, the latest poll numbers we’ve got from cnn and all kinds of reputable polls is that the country is turning more and more towards accepting open service of gay people in the u.s. military. so it’s not as simple as the you put. i know that the country moved right in the last election but when it comes to open service this country is overwhelmingly moving toward acceptance of open service, are they not?

>> well, if you look at the men and women who actually serve, which is only about 12% of the population that’s been serving in the military, it’s almost inverse. in a poll that’ll be coming out tomorrow, 63% of those who serve or who are currently serving or have served are opposed overturning this policy because they’re the ones who have to live by it but if you look at what’s happened in this last election the american public has rejected this — this radical push for social policy when the administration said it was going to be focused on jobs.

>> i think they rejected — i think they rejected a 9.5% unemployment rate. but that’s my view. tony, always — go back and spank peter sprigg for saying the wrong thing on this show.

>> we don’t do that either.

>> you don’t spank, well maybe shuat least verbally. thank you so much, mark potok coming on the program on a very hot issue.

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